Okay, guys, let's take this outside. :)

Tripmeister wrote:

Having been brought up going to see Man United reserve team games in the early 80s, being named after the player who would have captained England in 66 had he not died in 58, and being well read about the history and tradition of my club I think I'm more than entitled to be a red...

And it's not about being over-defensive...it's about standing up to the endless bullshit that's spouted by people who couldn't tell you when their team was founded, when they won their first trophy, how agonising it was to have a remarkable comeback snatched away in the last minute of the cup final...I've lived the successes and failures of my team for nigh on three decades...and I'm not about to go getting ashamed of them just because they've been successful for the last ten years...that's just retarded...

No one's asking you to be ashamed of the team, old chum - certainly not me. Ashamed of some of the fans, maybe, but which of us can't say that?

Your earlier posts made my arguments for me. Yes, I hate the fact that you usually give us a tonking. Yes, I'm envious of your club's great run of success over the past 15 years. And another part is what I mentioned about United's tendency to belittle the Premiership a couple of years ago, by word, more than by deed - I think it was disrespectful of the organisation that's helped them get where they are today. They've stepped back from this position of late, but memories are long in football. Still, aren't those good enough reasons to dislike a team? But those are only mine - I don't expect anyone else to subscribe to them.

I never actually thought that all those trophies were why you personally support the club - after all, young Duncan Edwards never really had any choice, did he?

And you're right about my upbringing in Plymouth, London and Yorkshire - but my childhood never really involved football. My dad wasn't interested, nor were any of the few other male role models I had. So I was left to find my own way to football. And I found it when my home was in Newcastle, at a time the club was starting to have some success.

But I don't think that makes me any less of a fan than someone born on Tyneside. And even though we haven't won the country's top honour since 1927, I'm not going to give up hope.

I've never believed people should be expected to support their local team. My grandmother, bless her, would argue that clubs should only be staffed by people from the immediate area - not something that would particularly harm NUFC, I feel, unlike some other big clubs - although funnily enough, MU would do okay out of this rule too (of course my grandmother also recently observed that "the blacks will take over this country soon - just like they took over Africa." Erm.. think you'll find that it was theirs in the first place, Nanny). That's pretty unreasonable - after all, look at your good lady. Not exactly a Scouse accent but I don't think any less of her for supporting Liverpool. Nor do I really care that you're one of Fergie's boys. For a start, it's not my place to tell you who you should or shouldn't support.

I just wanted a bit of a rant about how the allegiances of people who'd normally root for United's domestic opponents suddenly change when they have national coat-tails to ride on. Liverpool had it that way before them.

What I will say, though, is that when your good run does eventually come to an end (as it surely must some day) Kenyon and Co will find their fan base depletes rather rapidly.

It's not really the club's fault, but for me, that just ain't football.